[Oberon] Re. Platform independent IDE? & spurious formats
easlab at absamail.co.za
Sat Oct 18 17:18:19 MEST 2008
-Doug Danforth wrote:
> On how many different operating systems does N-O work?
> (I use the words "operating systems" because I am not really
> interested in the hardware and strongly wish to avoid any
> bit string manipulation to configure the system to a specific
> hardware platform. Those settings should be "preset" for
> each platform/operating system mix that is supported)
Well I've got it on:
1. native = plain PC, where the file-topics are partitioned into HD
'partitions'; each HD-partitions having a flat [non-heirarchial dir].
2. DOS-based, where the Obn-files are embedded in a big DOS-file;
3. Linux-based, where the Obn-files are individually [by default in
the dir, from where you started] as linux files and each edit creates
a <fileName>.Bak; but you can, with some inconvenience access
other directories of the Linux system.
4. then I've heard about a/the Win installation;
There might be others.
This is a classical question for the 1st level FAQ.
Since Linux-Aos/BB is now listed for Linux, Solaris and MacOSX,
then perhaps N-O is too ?
BTW for anyone running Linux-ETH-oberon, you *must* use [probably
several processes of] 'mc' [the clone/improvement of the original
brilliant DOS-Norton-Commander]. It's visual, like N-O.
Not Walt Disney [cartoon based] like Win, but like a spreadsheet, you
'see and select, what you want to process', instead of imagining the
machines state and writing appropriate notes to the little man in
Here's an example of 'writing a note..' instead of 'see and do'
which is the limit of my piano-playing-showing-off and only
possible because I gave the file a one-letter-mnemonic
I want to see [to copy for pasting] that path mentioned in file
The proper way, like with ETH-oberon [get the fileName,
open the file and 'see' to copy] is to use mc: 1. go to dir;
2. open/view-file [by single click or <F3>].
But piano-playing-note-writing [comand line input]can do:
which is OK if you are prepared to burden your memory with
the file's name. And lucky the output is only 2 lines, so it won't
scroll off the screen and be difficult to locate.
What I'm emphasising is that without mc [which integrates
well with ETH-Oberon] Linux-ETHoberon and perhaps
Linux-Aos/BB isn't so convenient.
> Academia vs Business
> With all of the lovely work going on at ETHZ it continually
> amazes me that there are not more spin-offs to commercialize
> that work.
> Oberon Microsystems was one such effort. I don't want to
> characterize it as to a success or failure but simply say that
> what they produced is very acceptable from the commercial
> side. If they had completed their goal of platform independence,
> I believe, they would have been more successful. One does not
> have to dominate a market in order to be a success.
> So why isn't Bluebottle supported as a shrink wrapped product
> for the major platforms?
I guess it's not about technology or rational economic decisions.
Like the current global [now correcting] economic behaviour:
everybody did it because every body else did it.
Although ETH-Oberon remains irrelevant in the PC market,
it may feature in the growing portable/less-power-consumption
Treutwein Bernhard wrote:
> Re 1: ETHZ is struggling for industry cooperation, see
> "http://www.oberon-industry.ethz.ch/" and
That sounded interesting, but my 'proper-browser' is
holding text with diagrams. So I tried with my
Lixux-ETH-oberon browser [images disabled by default]
and evaluate both pages to be poor, based on the ratio
of images & java-script to valuable text info.
By contract, MIT's brilliant:
loads perfectly under Lixux-ETH-oberon, and after I've confirmed
that the contents is more than "Life is better with Coke", I d/l the
diagrams. And then I multicolour the text while studying it. And
end up with a personally customised tutorial, where I can
cutNpaste the text and even the diagrams to other files.
So IMO the 2 http://www.oberon* fail to distinguish themselves
from the multitude of art-school-kiddie derived 'pages', which
I would normally just skip-over.
OTOH, to mention something astounding of ETH-Oberon which
seems not to be well known: the Scheme and Vinci system is a
complete Scheme system [which I've only done preliminary
tests on so far] on top of which is abstracted a remarkable
VHL graphics rendering application. Together they give a
stunning example of building levels of abstraction.
Scheme is built on top of Oberon and Vinci is built on Scheme.
Has this been carried over to BB/Aos ?
Perhaps Layla is similar to Vinci ?
== Chris Glur.
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