[Oberon] the threat that Oberon could improve?

[Charles Angelich]

>Message: 7
>From: cglur at onwe.co.za
>To: oberon at inf.ethz.ch
>Cc: cglur at onwe.co.za
>Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 07:14:57 +0200 (SAST)
>Subject: [Oberon] Displays and fonts and RX
>Reply-To: oberon at inf.ethz.ch
>
>
>> >Since 07.02.01, System.Directory on Native Oberon supports 
>> >additional flags.  This is currently only documented in
>> >http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/native/WebAlpha.html, excerpt below:
>
>OK. System.Directory  *.Tool\fd ~ gives what Charles want { use F1 };
>except IMPORTANTLY it should be date ordered.  Reversed is best.
>So, further refinements for the next version ?

No, actually this does NOT do "what Charles wants" and it was YOU who
said you had a need for a listing you could sort by date.  How did
this become MY need?

I've repeatedly reminded everyone here that the Native/Alpha was never
finished and will NOT install into one large FAT file?  Does no one
read anymore or is long term memory at a premium?

The default file format was changed, the commands to use this file
format were renamed, it was never intended that a person like
myself could finish this and use it.  In fact, as I remember this
you cannot even type into that user track and I have no idea why?

>Charles Angelich wrote:
>> Not including documentation within Oberon installs seems to be
>> a reocurring theme.
>
>Well yes, that's life.  It's inevitable for documentation to lag with
>non-commercial products.  Pity.

Lag?  Yes, I would say close to two years without documentation is a bit
of a LAG!

You sarcasm is noted also.  You need to re-adjust your persona a notch.

>> I also added a dot within the ZERO char to assist in reading 
>> Oberon source code when the capital "O" is being used along with 
>> the "0" (zero) char.  Not pretty really but easier on the eyes IMO.
>
>Then you're aware of the many existing fonts, and that you can choose
>the size and boldness you want. Also easily design your own chars. with 
>Desktops.OpenDoc FontEditor.Panel ~

I see three fonts useable for English language text?  This is what you
call MANY?  I know people with 700 fonts installed on their machines.

>Since you're interested in 'appearance' perhaps you can be our 
>resident artist ?   

You made a request for a sortable, by date, directory display then you
ridicule what I have to say about it and now you think I'm your
"boy"?  Think again.

>Did you look at: FontEditor.Panel -> Shanghai.Scn.Fnt
>eg.  chars 20Hex, "3", "4" ? Amazing stuff.  
>Is your alpha 2001 FontEditor.Panel also 'eratic' when 'keying' ?
>A 'senior' n-o user on c.l.o. tells me that my problems are imaginary.

I don't have Alpha installed here because it will not install.  Write this
down because by tomorrow you will have no memory of this text whatsoever.

Yes, I noticed the bugs in the font editor.  It also reverts back to
previous filenames if you "grow" a font display over the top of it
then "close" the font display.  Cute bug since you then save the font
overwriting a different font and eventually lose all your other fonts.
Neat huh?

>> btw: What happened to the Syntax#.Scn.Fnt I find in W31.  I like 
>> that font!
>
>I don't know/use W31-oberon, but # is not a valid char for a filename.

The Syntax#.Scn.Fnt is mentioned as the "fall-back" when the requested font 
is not found re:Oberon documentation.  You apparently don't RTFM a great deal 
either.

The "#" is a place-holder representing a number.  All font names also have 
a number remember?

>> If using a proportional font as the default for Native Oberon is
>> the crutch to justify the inability to do clean standard displays
>> then I would submit that a default proportional font was a mistake.
>
>I (and apparently others) like the feel of Oberon10.Scn.Fnt .
>When I get a table or an ascii-art-schematic which needs fixed-width
>font, I just 'wipe-it' and 'dab' my Courier8.Scn.Fnt text-bit which
>is on my personalTool/pallette.   

You, and apparently others, don't do a great deal with numbers and
therefore have no need of columnar displays. Odd because the favorite
contributed app seems to always be some form of number cruncher.  I
guess when you're doing cute graphs and charts you don't care about
displaying the data for verificiation of accuracy?

>Not easy for 2-button/dumbed-down use.

The only "dumb" here is that people think they're elite with a 3
button mouse.  The cost is $7 US new here in Michigan.  Get over it.

>Paul Reed wrote:
>> It strikes me that taking a system like Native Oberon
>> and trying to make it usable on 640x480 is like trying
>> to make a motorbike by sawing a car in half.
>
>I wonder why I never felt the pain and deprivation ?

You have nothing to use Oberon for other than a screen saver?

>When I first intalled V2.3.2 I just selected the default (VGA) and was 
>completely satisfied. Same for V 2.3.6.   And when I installed Linux based,
>the virtual screen was bigger than the physical, so it slides around when
>the cursor hits the edge - most annoying. I'm guessing X-setup would fix
>that, but life is too short.  I found the extra area of the linux version
>usefull for cramped jobs, like font editing with FontEditor.Panel .

Yes, Oberon does have nice screen savers if you like the old-style graphics.

>When I started using alpha 2001, I couldn't understand how they would
>design the Desktops.OpenDoc's store button to be inaccesable unless Grown
>to full screen size ( which crashes .html fetched texts -- which nobody
>would admit for 1 year !!).

Now you understand this?

>I strongly beleive in 'information hiding', and considered experimenting
>with different VDU settings as opening a can of worms, until Charle's
>complaints drew my attention to the possibility.

"Information hiding" is like calling rust "iron oxide".  Rust is rust
and mistakes are mistakes by any name you can think of.

>The fact that the default Oberon10.Scn.Fnt  gives you about 79 chars in
>the UserTrack with 640x480, also suggests it's OK.   What am I missing ?

You are missing the shared experience of having 100's or even 1000's of
Oberon users writing the code, fixing what needs to be fixed, and
sharing their experiences with you.

Given the option to have these experiences you would rather be sarcastic
and fight to maintain the status quo which is totally contrary to all
the folklore about Wirth and what he tried to do during his career.
Wirth, as described, would not smile at what you are fighting for here.



Charles Angelich

The Ghost in the Machine!

DOS and W31 Tech website:
http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost

Stories, poems, music, and photos website:
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