[Oberon] Software Tracking Project

[Skulski, Wojciech]

Joerg:

  I agree with you that both V4 and S3 are not applications. I also agree that Oberon System is unique in that the distinction is blurry. Not "a little", but very much. 

Looking at Windows, MS Word is an application. Under Linux, nano is an application. Under Oberon System, is Edit an application or part of an OS? On one hand, it is a wordprocessor. So it is an app. On the other hand, an Element like Sisiphus is running inside Edit. So Edit is a framework which is providing an API. So it looks like a part of an OS. Now we can start to argue, which category Edit is belonging to. 

>From a conventional Linux standpoint, it is fair to say that parts of the kernel belong to the OS, while programs running in the user address space are apps. This distinction does not apply to the classic Oberon, where there is only one address space. We can say that everything is an application, or everything is an OS. We can also say that command modules are apps, while the imported modules are services. However, the top most command modules can get imported into some even more topmost modules, in principle ad infinitum. I am not sure, where to draw the boundary between the OS and the apps, or between servers and clients. I am not sure if trying to draw such a line is productive.

My point was that both the ETH and V4 low level modules were intentionally quite similar to the original Oberon System modules. If so then it should be possible to plant both the ETH and Linz module trees on a common set of low level modules. It should also be possible to use ETH Edit to host Elements and Dialogs. These are the most important parts of V4. 

In my opinion, the benefit would be to mend the rift which somehow developed over the years between the two systems. I am not sure why the rift has developed, but I suspect it was not beneficial to the community.

W.
________________________________________
From: Jörg [joerg.straube at iaeth.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:07 PM
To: Skulski, Wojciech; 'ETH Oberon and related systems'
Subject: RE: [Oberon] Software Tracking Project

Wojtek

V4 and S3 are OSes not applications, although this differentiation is a
little blurry in Oberon.
In today's world, one could call your idea of running an OS on top of
another OS virtualization.
Or one could take the idea of Linux, with a common kernel and different OS
flavors on top.

In the operating system A2 (aka Bluebottle, aka AOS, written in
ActiveOberon) it's possible to start the legacy Oberon OS as separate task
in A2.

So, your idea is well possible (in SW almost everything is possible :-) but
needs quite some work.

br
Jörg

-----Original Message-----
From: Skulski, Wojciech [mailto:skulski at pas.rochester.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 5:23 PM
To: joerg.straube at iaeth.ch; ETH Oberon and related systems
<oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
Subject: RE: [Oberon] Software Tracking Project

Joerg:

  do not you think that V4 and S3 can coexist on top of the same lower level
layer? You could possibly launch either one or the other, or perhaps even
both, though it would make little sense.

Merging the two could possibly end the rift which was dividing the community
for reasons which were hard to grasp from a distance.

W.
________________________________________
From: Oberon [oberon-bounces at lists.inf.ethz.ch] on behalf of Jörg
[joerg.straube at iaeth.ch]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 9:35 AM
To: 'ETH Oberon and related systems'
Subject: Re: [Oberon] Software Tracking Project

Hi

Isn't this request like: I would like to see Linux and Android merged?
They are similar: same language, same compiler (perhaps even same CPU, same
Kernel). But some of the APIs differ.

br
Jörg

-----Original Message-----
From: Oberon [mailto:oberon-bounces at lists.inf.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of
Treutwein Bernhard
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:35 PM
To: 'oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch' <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: [Oberon] Software Tracking Project

>I would like to see V4 and ETH System merged.

I think this is an excellent idea.

Maybe UV4 would be a good starting point:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sourceforge.net_project
s_oberon_&d=DwIFAw&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=uUiA_zLpw
aGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=nqDS5CyXZIYdcOmlMrjf7C4H8TsPIxpkqLljZCQ
9wns&s=mdw5q5iL8zSP_3yaqyCEu0f1Qh2Sr6YOoIrvCsDEIrc&e=
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__sourceforge.net_p_obero
n_wiki_Home_&d=DwIFAw&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=uUiA_z
LpwaGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=nqDS5CyXZIYdcOmlMrjf7C4H8TsPIxpkqLlj
ZCQ9wns&s=BCyGCZty5GWxx7gh6dZCSwsvaF--hofW42_t0BG1DSM&e=

--
  Bernhard

--
Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.inf.ethz.ch_mailm
an_listinfo_oberon&d=DwIFAw&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=
uUiA_zLpwaGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=nqDS5CyXZIYdcOmlMrjf7C4H8TsPIx
pkqLljZCQ9wns&s=coZmt0X5ozfRQnjkEK2IiCurdoMPAHxU6iMuKVZ0Om8&e=

--
Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.inf.ethz.ch_mailm
an_listinfo_oberon&d=DwIFAw&c=kbmfwr1Yojg42sGEpaQh5ofMHBeTl9EI2eaqQZhHbOU&r=
uUiA_zLpwaGJIlq-_BM9w1wVOuyqPwHi3XzJRa-ybV0&m=nqDS5CyXZIYdcOmlMrjf7C4H8TsPIx
pkqLljZCQ9wns&s=coZmt0X5ozfRQnjkEK2IiCurdoMPAHxU6iMuKVZ0Om8&e=