[Oberon] Re: Oberon digest, Vol 1 #37 - 15 msgs

[Charles Angelich]

>Message: 11
>From: muller at inf.ethz.ch
>Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 00:08:03 +0200
>To: oberon at inf.ethz.ch
>Cc: muller at inf.ethz.ch
>Subject: [Oberon] Native Oberon introductory documentation
>Reply-To: oberon at inf.ethz.ch

>I can not agree with this.

With all due respect to you as an experienced Oberon user, we
are not referring to advanced use of Oberon.

When a new user tells you they can't cope with the existing
documentation how can you possibly see the document in the
way that they see it?

Personally I am trying to be forthright and honest at the
expense of my own ego and admit that some of this confuses
me.  Arguing from your perspective of many years of Oberon
use is pointless IMO.

Retyping all of this doesn't really change anything.  It would
change something if the install to a FAT file was finished
within the Native/Update/Alpha install and I could install that 
version here with the updated modules and altered command structures.
 ;-)

>A minimal Native Oberon system can be installed from a single 
>install diskette (Oberon-0), by design.  Therefore there are 
>some bootstrapping restrictions on the documentation included.

It's not the amount of documentation available.  It is finding
the documentation and interpreting the meaning that is the
problem for a new user of Oberon.

>... and goes on to explain Oberon concepts like system track, 
>user track, viewer, scroll bar, menu bar, viewer title, scrolling,
>command execution, text editing, text selection, resizing viewers.
>and closing viewers.  All in about two pages.
>
>URL: ftp://ftp.inf.ethz.ch/pub/ETHOberon/Native/Update/Alpha/Build/Build.zip
>Install.Tool and Introduction.Text ( Edit.Open ^ )

References to ZIP format archives is of no use to Native/Update/Beta
users since the ZipTool.Arc was not listed as a part of the install,
not available in the Beta directory, and apparently until a week ago
buggy.  Add to that the decision to use "ARC" and "ZIP" which are
more commonly known as their SEA/PKware conterparts only confuses
new users all the more.  At least Linux uses "TGZ" or "Z" rather
than reuse a well-known existing file extension.

[...]

>I find this "documentation path" sensible, even though the 
>contents of the last two documents leaves room for improvement.

There will be little or no improvement if new users are hammered
for pointing out that some of this is confusing.

>Suggestions are welcome.  Preferably send me edited documents 
>in the same format as the original.

Suggestions are "welcome" from those who have managed to get
Oberon installed, working, and online so that they can edit
this document from within Oberon and send it to you in the
original Oberon format?

At this time they would no longer be "new users" and would
have no memories of how confusing all of this was some
time back in their past.

Accepting this information in "raw" data format then
editing the documentation may be reprehensible but once
I can send you native Oberon formatted documents I will
no longer be a "virgin user".

>BTW The Windows Oberon approach of opening the Gadgets 
>document Distribution.Text automatically is much simpler, 
>but this is not possible in Native Oberon under the 
>restrictions of a single install diskette.

I have not looked at the boot sequencing for Oberon by my
guess is the inclusion of Edit.Open "whatever.text"
followed by System.Grow to cause this text to "popup"
in the user track wouldn't overwhelm the size
of the Oberon0.dsk image file?



Charles Angelich

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