(Re: [Oberon] Programming Editor) & etc.

John Drake jmdrake_98 at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 23 17:43:47 CET 2003

First of all I'm in no way an ETH "insider" yet
I'm very much aware of the tools ET and PET.
ET is available from the Applications.Tool that
comes installed with EVERY S3 implementation!
PET can be downloaded from Oberon PUBLIC FTP


That being said I rarely use PET or ET.  I find
the default tools sufficient and FAR BETTER than
TP for DOS!  I use TextPopups.Tool (again it's
available to all) to navigate my source code.
With 2 mouse clicks I can immediately jump to
any procedure or type defined in the module I'm
working on.  Tools.OpenMod lets me jump
directly to procedures defined in other modules,
provided that the module name isn't aliased.
And Watson.ShowObj lets me immediately see the
definition of any imported procedure, type or
global variable.  When programming under S3
I usually have the the Programming.Tool open
in the system track so that I have direct access
to the Watson and Builder tools.  This makes
me far more productive than I ever was under
TP for DOS.  The only thing that I really miss
in the latest S3 for Windows is a decent 
post mordem debugging tool.  Unfortunately the
Trap windows only show you top level variables.
Trap windows in V4 and BlackBox allow you to
"drill down" inside member variables of objects.
The previous version of S3 had Examiner.Tool
which was a cludgy post mordem debugger, but
unfortunately it was left out of the Plugin
Oberon distribution.


John M. Drake

--- eas-lab at absamail.co.za wrote:
> Aubrey McIntosh wrote:
> > Can some kind soul provide a Tool (or name some
> existing ones) that
> > have a few relevant commands for the { Edit
> Compile } Store cycle?
> I got no reply to the same questions.
> Eth 'insiders' are obviously hiding the good stuff
> from us.
> I recently revisited 1980's DOS Turbo-Pascal
> Edit/Compile/Store
> facilities  - much more productive than what I have
> to use with S3.
> That's why I don't do oberon programming.
> S3 is superb for general text handling;  why such
> weak programming tools?
> I can't believe that eth 'insiders' use what we are
> offered ?
> peter_easthope at gulfnet.sd64.bc.ca  wrote:
> > In PC Native 24.08.2002 my Oberon.Text:System:
> > InitCommands contains "ET.ReplaceSystemEditor" 
> > yet MM+MR on a file name opens Edit.  Do I have 
> > something configured incorrectly; is this a
> > repaired bug or a pending repair?
> For me MM+MR opens the editor type:
> Edit/ET/Sctript/Desktops;
> according to the type which 'contains' the file
> name.
> OK !   But not for ET.   Seems to be an
> inconsistency.
> I'm using ver. beta?alpha 2001.
> I'd be interested to know the mechanism whereby
> MM+MR DOES opens an editor of the same 'type'  as
> where
> the MM+MR was executed.
> Where is the system wide mouse handling done ?
> An early tutorial showed how MM <Module>.<Proc>
> caused the M.P to be executed.  I guess the MM+MR
> handling is related to this ?
> > Friday, 2002-07-19 Chris Glur suggested,
> > cg> You shouldn't try writing video drivers 
> > before doing simpler experiments.  Use 
> > successive refinement.  After you've done 
> > RS232 and UBS 'experiments' you will better
> > cope with a video driver.
> > 
> > A reasonable suggestion, although I have no 
> > USB hardware yet.
> Nor I. Nor do I know what UBS is; except that as a
> 'few-pin'
> interface replacing the serial port, it must be much
> simpler than
> a video driver.
> The correct route to start from zero experience for
> writing
> hardware drivers is:
>  * get hands-on-feedback as soon as possible, by
> exercising the
>   simplest case.  The PC-speaker is ideal.
> Unfortunately our 
> http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/speaker.html is a dud,
> because it
> introduces much irrelevant complications.
>   * the next hardware that can be played with,
> without crashing
> the machine is the parallel port.   Again, results
> must be observable.
> A speaker (isolated via a capacitor) can give
> observable output.
> Parallel port can also exercise inputs. 
> After this it's time to be able to see voltage
> changes caused on
> outputs: voltmeter, oscilloscope ....etc.
>   * Even if you use n-o's : "s := s - {0, 1}"
> syntax, you have to think in
> terms of bits, bytes, registers - not sets. 
> I.e use the terminology & paradigm of the hardware
> device/card 
> suppliers.
> > I spent a good part of the Christmas break 
> > studying RFCs and Edgar's PPP modules.  It 
> > was a good learning exercise and this system 
> > can now connect to the GulfNet Vicom router 
> > once again.
> Is it difficult to condense your newly aquired
> knowledge and
> explain what the problem was and what are the
> essential steps
> and material to cover, to understand the ppp process
> ?
> Eg. a sequence of: "Doc: xyz explains xxx, which is
> essential."
> Even knowing exactly what to read is a big part of
> the knowledge
> of having researched something.
> -- Chris Glur.
> --
> Oberon at inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and
> related systems
> http://www.lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon

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