[Oberon] Re: Notebook and Bluebottle - higher view

[easlab at absamail.co.za]

--- edgar at edgarschwarz.de wrote:

> Hi,
> some Details added.
> I have a new Fujitsu/Siemens Amilo L7300 notebook.
> When I boot Bluebottle from CD (CD works on other
> machine) I get a 
> "Oberon loading" and the screen goes blank :-(

That's why it's called the bleeding-edge.
Thanks for 'walking in front and taking the bullets'.

John M. Drake wrote:-
> Side note, it would be nice if there was someway to
> directly use Linux drivers from BlueBottle or to
> convert them somehow.  Pipedream I know.

I'm back on my [stale-old] topic: advocating 'moving up
the leaverage chain'.

I.e. binary-coding > hex > asm > compiled > 4GL > 'management'.

The conceptual gap from standard [what we've invested learning
in] asm, C, or even good-old-Turbo-Pascal syntax for hardware
drivers, and n-o [presumably Aos/Blue-bottle too] is prohibitive.

It would be profitable to 'move up the productivety chain' and not
just think of writing drivers for the 'oberon-family', but rather
to make a[n] utility to help translate between the many languages
- not only from "n-o funny assembler" to more standard syntax.

There are 2 management techniques to assist in moving towards
this goal:
1.  Edgar previously was advocating the virtues of the 'Wikki system',
which I've only recently come to appreciate.  It apparently HAS 
acheived a mechanism whereby contributors can add-value to
the overall project[s] at their convenience.  The ability to randomly,
incrementally add-value to a project [without centralised control]
means that all the projects which previously needed a single-unified
'life', now become doable.  Analagously the aircraft doesn't need to
complete the flight in real time, but can suspend and fork and restore
randomly - if you get me.

2.  Think small & refine/grow.
n-o provides '4GL' tools. Eg. simple routines callable from scripts
and the very 'on the surface' mouse-chording interface.

As an example, I want to access my mail box without going the
normal route: ppp > PAP > ID & Password [perhaps also as a standby
for a portable DOS only capable thing, when my telco-line is dud].
Which n-o's "HLL facilities" allows - more conveniently than linux.

I'm moving forward thus: ---

File: NonPPP.Tool   ==
! Howto connect ISP non-ppp ? = Try "ppp", "?", "menu", and "terminal"
!  Desktops.OpenDoc BAK:V24.Panel
!  edit to: 2 38400 8 1 none
! first use:  CRGV24Debug.CloseCOM2
! Paste to V24.Panel :-
ATZ
ATX
ATM2D 3407501

Name=
2nm4nx6x at za
Paswrd=
....
< rest of notes etc. from NewsGroup ...etc.>
==========  end of  NonPPP.Tool extract ===

For those who don't know what this is about:
*.Tool is a n-o 'heuristic management tool concept', which
helps us handle the info-overload.
The few lines above [preferably colour-coded for extra assistance]
allow me to use n-o's facilities to incrementally get to my ISP
mail-box without ppp facilities.

Next time[s] I'll extend the capabilities.
And when I'm done, I'll capute the knowledge in a naive script.

The important point, is that one doesn't need to comitt to a
big project, where all is lost if/when the final destination
isn't reached 'in one trip'.
==========

Relating this back to "writing drivers for blue-bottle/Aos, 
I advocate:
* investigating a 'translation tool[s]' which will help not
 only writing hardware drivers in more 'standard syntax',
  but which [perhaps with extention/modification] can HELP 
  eg. translate to n-o from C, Pascal, Modular-2, Polog, Java ...etc.
Linux's vim editor which does syntax hi-lighing for multiple
languages is great.
Think of heuristic-tools, rather than automagic wizards.

* start off with a primitive version and allow it to evolve/refine.

== Chris Glur.

PS. a previous related thread:
   "SyntaxConstrainedEditor: howto"
gave me the following:-
* using the existing high-level-language facilities of n-o:
 ET.Popup  with 'minimal scripts'; a primitive SyntaxConstrainedEditor
  was trivially acheivable.
Here are some typical scripts :--
File: VAR ==
ET.Marker set 433 444
ET.Open qVAR ==
ET.Marker set 433 422
System.Clear *
ET.Recall

File: qVAR ==
VAR  ^ID : ^TypeList ;

File: IF.ELSE  ==
ET.Marker set 433 444
ET.Open qIF.ELSE
ET.Marker set 433 422
System.Clear *
ET.Recall

File: qIF.ELSE  ==
 <-- delete
IF ^Exprn THEN ^Statment 
ELSE ^Statment
END
============ qAsignmemt 
^InScopeVar := ^Exprn 
============ qIF 
 <-- delete
IF ^Exprn THEN ^Statment 
END
============ qWHILE

Quite honestly, I can't see [now] how it works. But the point is that
an initial evaluation can be made at a very-high-level [superficial
programming], before refinement.  In fact I consider S3's  whole
interface with the mouse-chording a type of VeryHLL.

PSS. the contributor who pointed out that existing editor 'Pet'
could probably do [towards] SyntaxConstrainedEditor is likely
correct.  As posted, I concluded that the value of such an editor
would be trivial, given the other hassle in n-o programming.
OTOH if the framework is adaptable to other tasks, it becomes
a more cost effective exercise.  Look for leaverage.
More passengers to share the journey cost ?