[Oberon] oberonstation vs. a $9 computer

Tue Feb 9 16:42:22 CET 2016

Ken, you are very close to the actual numbers.

A few comments:
* The iCE40 series is not an option - too small both in cell count and 
pin count.  Even the Xilinx Spartan6 in 144 QFP package wont have enough 
pins so you have to go BGA which will increase the assembly cost.
* You have to build at least 100 boards to get a reasonable assembly 
cost, which will tie up something like $10000 in capital.  If you are 
lucky you will sell all of the boards or you will get stuck with unsold 
inventory.
* The assembly house typically have a one-time setup cost (stencils, p&p 
programming etc.) at typically around $300 (or $3 per board if you build 
100).
* PayPal or the credit card processor will take about 3% cut or about $3 
for a $100 board
* Don't forget packaging materials like shipping box, padded bags etc.
* There will be some non-functional boards.  What if a board gets lost 
or damaged in shipping, who will pay for that?
* You need to build prototypes to make sure the design is good before 
starting production.  Components and PCBs for the prototypes will cost 
you $500 - $1000 and those boards really can't be sold.
* You need to put in several man-weeks of design time to make it happen.

So hopefully it's quite clear that selling a board like Pepino LX9/1MB 
that will run Oberon RISC5 right out of the box for $99.95 is not driven 
by a desire to make money but rather an effort to make such a board 
available at a reasonable cost so that others have the opportunity to 
venture into the world of Oberon RISC5 and FPGAs in general.

For more info about Pepino LX9/1MB see 
http://saanlima.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=64

Magnus

On 2/8/2016 11:18 AM, Ken Boak wrote:
> Lars,
>
> Perhaps you could choose a cheaper FPGA - such as the Altera iCE40 
> series  ($7) and a couple of 512K x 16 SRAMs at $13.35.
>
> Then there's the FT2232 at $6.69, and then something like a FTDI 
> Vinculum to act as USB host at $3.99.
>
> A 2.25" x 4"   4 layer board  will be about   $10 from China - but MOQ 
> is 5off. Then there's about $5 to $10 of assorted other components 
> like the connectors, voltage regulator, LEDS, microSD card.
>
> So we are up to almost $65 and you haven't even placed a single 
> component. Add another 25% for assembly. What about programming and 
> testing?
>
> Right, board built, untested for $81.25.  Do you need to make a profit 
> on this?
>
> Now you just have to port the risc 5 across to the Altera iCE 40 - 
> which should take a good FPGA engineer about a week.....
>
> Alternatively you could run Oberon under Linux on a Pi or a chip,  or 
> perhaps just  order a $3 PS/2 mouse online.
>
>
> Enjoy........
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 February 2016 at 18:12, <skulski at pas.rochester.edu 
> <mailto:skulski at pas.rochester.edu>> wrote:
>
>     Lars:
>
>     It is sort of funny that one can use the low price as an argument. How
>     much do you value your time? Let's say it is $5 per hour, way below
>     minimum wage. How much time will you spend on getting anything
>     done with
>     any piece of hardware, be it Arduino, RPi, Beagle Bone, or Oberon
>     Station?
>     Are you going to achieve anything meaningful in less than 10
>     hours? If so
>     then I will consider hiring you for $50 per hour.
>
>     The low price does indeed matter if you will use the hardware in a
>     finished product. They are talking of a disposable computer. If
>     you are
>     going to basically throw it away after a single use (provided that you
>     environmental soul lets you do it), then indeed $9 matters. But if
>     you are
>     going to do any development or experimentation with the HW, then
>     you will
>     likely spend hundreds of hours doing so. Then it does not matter
>     if you
>     invest $9, $90, or even $900 into your hardware. Almost any such
>     amount is
>     dwarfed by the cost of your time.
>
>     Oberon Station is a development platform. The valid question is
>     "development of what?". The initial dollar investment in the
>     development
>     hardware is not that important in this case.
>
>     W.
>
>
>     > The oberon station is tempting, but with Raspberry Pi at $35
>     > or the C.H.I.P computer for $9.00... that has USB,
>     > and WIFI that works like any wifi, the oberon station
>     > is really priced way out of the market.  If the
>     > oberonstation was around $50 more people would buy.
>     > How can you possibly compete with the C.H.I.P.
>     > for $9.00.
>
>
>
>     --
>     Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch <mailto:Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch> mailing
>     list for ETH Oberon and related systems
>     https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
>
>
>
>
> --
> Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
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