[Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 9
Søren Renner
soren.renner at gmail.com
Tue Nov 21 12:50:06 CET 2017
Dieter: I don't know how much more specific I can be, considering the
HUNDREDS of videos I have put on youtube over the last decade and the fact
that in that time I have not shut up about raytracing. You and everyone
else just choose to ignore it. You could look on github if you are suddenly
curious.
On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 6:00 AM, <oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote:
> Send Oberon mailing list submissions to
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>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (Dieter)
> 2. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (chris)
> 3. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (Skulski, Wojciech)
> 4. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (Skulski, Wojciech)
> 5. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (Peter Matthias)
> 6. Re: Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8 (S?ren Renner)
> 7. Foundations of realtime graphics?? (Skulski, Wojciech)
> 8. Re: Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8 (Dieter)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:16:01 +0100
> From: Dieter <d.gloetzel at web.de>
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> Message-ID: <80e9321f-1534-26fc-cb61-fb6cbf831cf4 at web.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Just to explain the context:
>
> You may have heard about TeX and LaTeX, the document handling and
> typesetting software, originally developed by Donald E. Knuth.
>
> The TeX-flavor for musical notation is "MusixTeX"
> <http://www.icking-music-archive.org/software/htdocs/index.html>.
>
> This renders the note sheets, based on a textual description. The?
> utilization of MusixTeX is very much simplified, when you use a
> preprocessor called "PMX", which you find also
>
> on the mentioned WEB Page. Now there are dozens of musical notation
> programs. And the most popular data exchange format between these is "
> MusicXML".
>
> I have developed a program in ETHOberon 2.5 which translates MusicXML
> code, generated by other musical notation programs, to PMX-Input. It is
> called "XML2PMX"
> and is also to be found on the above WEB page.
>
> With Oberon 2.5 I can produce a Windows-Exe for distribution. And with
> the aid of OLR, I can equally create a Linux Binary.
>
> Now there exist many utility programs around TeX software, which may be
> written in Fortran, Lua, C, Pascal etc.
>
> In order to provide overall portability, the TeX user group has decided,
> to use C language as the integration point.
>
> This is, why I need a C-translation of my little program (some 4500
> lines of Oberon).
>
> I will investigate for this purpose OBNC as well as Ofront.
>
> Regards,
> Dieter
>
> Am 20.11.2017 um 02:39 schrieb eas lab:
> > <Note sheet> format must be very <graphic>,
> > getting close to hardware ?
> > Needing access to ETHO's functions which don't exist in C.
> > C is just a language, not an OS.
> >
> > ETHOberon is a language and an OS [driving hardware].
> > These O to C translators wont handle the <Note sheet rendering>.
> >
> > PublicDomain wily [my most used linux utility] is based on ETHO:
> > mouse-chording & multiple TextFrames in multiple Tracks accessible
> > on the single screen. But they've just copied the CONCEPTS and not
> > tried to translate-Oberon-to-C
> >
> > Unless your app just generates the <data> which is finally fed to some
> > <standard renderer>. Eg. we can use any language/system to translate
> > a text file to a corresponding pdf rendering of it.
> > But the final <note sheet> is created by the pdf renderer.
> > --
> > Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related
> systems
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
> >
>
> --
> ____________________________________
> Dr. Dieter Gl?tzel
> Im Rosengarten 27
> 64367 M?hltal
> Tel.: 06151 / 360 82 72
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:24:58 +0100
> From: chris <chris at gcjd.org>
> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> Message-ID: <20171120132458690500.69e350fe at gcjd.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:16:01 +0100, Dieter wrote:
> > I have developed a program in ETHOberon 2.5 which translates MusicXML
> > code, generated by other musical notation programs, to PMX-Input. It
> > is called "XML2PMX"
> > and is also to be found on the above WEB page.
> >
> > With Oberon 2.5 I can produce a Windows-Exe for distribution. And
> > with the aid of OLR, I can equally create a Linux Binary.
>
> Can we see the source of your app? How difficult this is depends on the
> use of Oberon modules and language features. As far as I understand you
> want to generate a command line program for Linux or Windows without
> the Oberon OS. If there is only some file IO this is easy. If there is
> some user interface related modules used it can be very hard.
>
> Greetings, chris
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 13:52:38 +0000
> From: "Skulski, Wojciech" <skulski at pas.rochester.edu>
> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> Message-ID:
> <DM5PR0701MB3672CBEEE36225AF4AD8C236FF220 at DM5PR0701MB3672.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Oberon isn?t exactly a growth story.
>
> A couple questions:
>
> 1. Would it be better if it were a growth story? Better in what sense?
> Better for whom?
>
> 2. Assuming that "yes, it would be better", then why is it not? What is
> missing? What is wrong?
>
> We all know how great it it is. Perhaps it makes sense to ask how bad it
> is. Why bad?
>
> Similar questions could be asked of BlackBox, but here the story is a bit
> different. BB was a commercial product whose marketing was not that great.
> Also the company had an idealistic vision of the users community (that is,
> programmers and developers) who were itching for a good language running in
> a good framework. Somehow the professional developers are different from
> what the company was thinking. So now BB has found another niche where it
> is reportedly doing well.
>
> But Oberon and Oberon System is doing even worse than BB, if we define
> "bad" as "very few users". So why?
>
> W
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Oberon [oberon-bounces at lists.inf.ethz.ch] on behalf of Andreas
> Pirklbauer [andreas_pirklbauer at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 3:49 AM
> To: ETH Oberon and related systems
> Subject: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
>
> > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who
> > responded (thank you!) represent 1/2 of the community,
> > there are under 100 Oberon users worldwide.
>
> That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 14:01:11 +0000
> From: "Skulski, Wojciech" <skulski at pas.rochester.edu>
> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> Message-ID:
> <DM5PR0701MB367217E39C6B96032646279DFF220 at DM5PR0701MB3672.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> From: Oberon [oberon-bounces at lists.inf.ethz.ch] on behalf of Dieter [
> d.gloetzel at web.de]
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 6:16 AM
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
>
> > This is, why I need a C-translation of my little program (some 4500
> lines of Oberon).
> > I will investigate for this purpose OBNC as well as Ofront.
>
> Dieter:
>
> my own experience tells me that a programming language is a way of
> thinking. (A way of life for some.) I think in a different way when I
> program in Oberon, Component Pascal, or C. I wrote quite a few C utilities
> for my FPGA instruments. I claim they are good, but they have their own
> flavor. While Oberon has certainly taught me how to write good code, I am
> not trying to pretend, that my C utilities were written in Oberon.
>
> Since your program is so small, you may be better off rewriting it rather
> than translating. If you are not fluent with C, it may be best to find
> someone who is. (Not me, I am now very busy.) I mean, re-engineering rather
> than translating is probably a better way to clean code.
>
> Please feel free to disagree.
>
> Thank you,
> W
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:15:07 +0100
> From: Peter Matthias <PeterMatthias at web.de>
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> Message-ID: <b5c04d6b-600c-4332-a193-d0d66a71b56e at web.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
>
> Am 18.11.2017 um 10:37 schrieb Dieter:
> > As some of you know I have written an App in ETHOberon 2.5 on Windows,
> > which converts MusicXML into another format and finally to Note sheets.
> > For reasons of portability??? I want to translate this App into C
> > language. There seem to be two possible paths to follow:
> >
> > 1. Converting my app to Oberon 2 and then using Ofront as C-Translator
> > 2. Converting my? app to Oberon07 and then using Obnc as C-Translator
> >
> > Does anybody have experience with this type of problem?
>
> Not really. AFAIK, your code already is Oberon-2. So I would start with
> Ofront.
>
> If I understand the task correctly you need c to get TeX execute your
> program and understand MusicXML directly. To execute c inside TeX might
> have been a good idea 20 years ago, today llvm and WebAssembly would do
> this task much better IMHO.
>
> Peter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 12:48:48 -0500
> From: S?ren Renner <soren.renner at gmail.com>
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8
> Message-ID:
> <CAJuGca8BXw4waehKruVUODownGi6areBYKY3hN1z00q0KTAwmA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
>
> Well, but at least one of the current coders working in Oberon has created
> something that will shake the foundations of realtime graphics. So Oberon
> might become less obscure again.
>
> On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:00 AM, <oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch> wrote:
>
> > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to
> > oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > oberon-owner at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (eas lab)
> > 2. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (eas lab)
> > 3. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (Skulski, Wojciech)
> > 4. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (Douglas G Danforth)
> > 5. V4 versus S3 survey (Andreas Pirklbauer)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:16:43 +0000
> > From: eas lab <lab.eas at gmail.com>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAN3-DLHp95wV+N0-Hc9niQ8GJjc083HFq2nKjs5KXkMV2k
> > hVXQ at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > It's important to realise why-would-you-want-to-use Oberon ?
> > When you have a complex problem, that needs simultaneous inspection of
> > many files,
> > and intermediate reluslts, and especially where coloring parts of the
> > textFrames shows
> > the otherwise difficult to appreciate relationship between various
> > sections of the text in
> > the various TextFrames.
> > In the 90s Oberon gave these advantages [still unsurpassed], but the
> > introduction
> > of new technology, eg, the monsterously complex USB, could have made ETHO
> > redundant, had ETHO not been portable enough to be allowed to
> > ride-on-top-of
> > *nix.
> >
> > For me: V4 was the only version I could find, while I was forced to use
> > M$pook;
> > and like the *nix version was some relief from the restrictions of M$,
> but
> > like
> > the *nix version lacked the ease of directly being able to read/write
> > anywhere
> > in the file tree -- which AFAIK only Linux Eth Oberon can do.
> > LEO also has the massively powerful ability to directly execute *nix
> > commands
> > and scripts [and show the results]. So eg. the [absurd IMO] inability
> > to <List the
> > N most recently-ordered files>, needs only LEO's System.Execute to call:
> > Lz /mnt/USBstik/Med/Cases/F*g/ 22
> > to show the name and size of the ordered-by-recentcy 22 files, in
> directory
> > [don't use M$pook baby-talk and call it a folder]
> > /mnt/USBstik/Med/Cases/F*g/
> > .....
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 01:39:25 +0000
> > From: eas lab <lab.eas at gmail.com>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAN3-DLEeRxZt-LiRYrJDUWmwuTpeijfxwJFRb6og+
> > R3YP3KR0Q at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > <Note sheet> format must be very <graphic>,
> > getting close to hardware ?
> > Needing access to ETHO's functions which don't exist in C.
> > C is just a language, not an OS.
> >
> > ETHOberon is a language and an OS [driving hardware].
> > These O to C translators wont handle the <Note sheet rendering>.
> >
> > PublicDomain wily [my most used linux utility] is based on ETHO:
> > mouse-chording & multiple TextFrames in multiple Tracks accessible
> > on the single screen. But they've just copied the CONCEPTS and not
> > tried to translate-Oberon-to-C
> >
> > Unless your app just generates the <data> which is finally fed to some
> > <standard renderer>. Eg. we can use any language/system to translate
> > a text file to a corresponding pdf rendering of it.
> > But the final <note sheet> is created by the pdf renderer.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:41:45 +0000
> > From: "Skulski, Wojciech" <skulski at pas.rochester.edu>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID:
> > <DM5PR0701MB3672C5244CE2BAFE92502858FF220 at DM5PR0701MB3672.
> > namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > I want to thank everybody who responded. Those who did not, please do!
> >
> > The results thus far are available through this link. I hope it works for
> > everybody.
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YSV9HDQJ8/
> >
> > My impression looking at the results is the following:
> >
> > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who responded (thank
> > you!) represent 1/2 of the community, there are under 100 Oberon users
> > worldwide.
> >
> > 2. I was surprised that many of you prefer the original TUI Oberon over
> V4
> > or S3.
> >
> > 3. I was even more surprised to see six FPGA developers, plus seven
> > potential developers. It is more than I know in the entire nuclear
> physics
> > community, where FPGAs are critically important. Our community could
> serve
> > the entire country!
> >
> > 4. There are three potential board developers, including myself.
> >
> > 5. The market for a new more powerful board is six customers.
> >
> > So this is quite interesting. Good to know!
> >
> > Thank you again!
> >
> > Wojtek
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 23:43:48 -0800
> > From: Douglas G Danforth <danforth at greenwoodfarm.com>
> > To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID: <8caf39c6-a812-6ee6-80cc-ccd42a3de664 at greenwoodfarm.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > Don't forget the Russian contingent who are developing in
> > BlackBox/Component Pascal.
> >
> > On 11/19/2017 10:41 PM, Skulski, Wojciech wrote:
> > > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who responded
> (thank
> > you!) represent 1/2 of the community, there are under 100 Oberon users
> > worldwide.
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 09:49:46 +0100
> > From: Andreas Pirklbauer <andreas_pirklbauer at yahoo.com>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> > Subject: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID: <B081E179-7C39-474E-99E2-D760675B731F at yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who
> > > responded (thank you!) represent 1/2 of the community,
> > > there are under 100 Oberon users worldwide.
> >
> > That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> > story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > --
> > Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8
> > **************************************
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 18:35:52 +0000
> From: "Skulski, Wojciech" <skulski at pas.rochester.edu>
> To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> Subject: [Oberon] Foundations of realtime graphics??
> Message-ID:
> <DM5PR0701MB36726E8B2A8AAE515D6824ADFF220 at DM5PR0701MB3672.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> S?ren Renner wrote:
>
> > created something that will shake the foundations of realtime graphics
>
> Any details?
>
> Wojtek
> ________________________________________
> From: Oberon [oberon-bounces at lists.inf.ethz.ch] on behalf of S?ren Renner
> [soren.renner at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 12:48 PM
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8
>
> That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
>
> Well, but at least one of the current coders working in Oberon has created
> something that will shake the foundations of realtime graphics. So Oberon
> might become less obscure again.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 09:57:01 +0100
> From: Dieter <d.gloetzel at web.de>
> To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Oberon] Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8
> Message-ID: <45f62a45-0197-9c33-3f6b-0597d26011db at web.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi S?ren,
>
> could you be a bit more specific about this graphics genius and his
> achievements?
>
> Regards
> Dieter
>
> Am 20.11.2017 um 18:48 schrieb S?ren Renner:
> > That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> > story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
> >
> > Well, but at least one of the current coders working in Oberon has
> > created something that will shake the foundations of realtime
> > graphics. So Oberon might become less obscure again.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:00 AM, <oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch>> wrote:
> >
> > Send Oberon mailing list submissions to
> > oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
> > <https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon>
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon-request at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > oberon-owner at lists.inf.ethz.ch <mailto:oberon-owner at lists.
> inf.ethz.ch>
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Oberon digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > ? ?1. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (eas lab)
> > ? ?2. Re: Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C (eas lab)
> > ? ?3. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (Skulski, Wojciech)
> > ? ?4. Re: V4 versus S3 survey (Douglas G Danforth)
> > ? ?5.? V4 versus S3 survey (Andreas Pirklbauer)
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 13:16:43 +0000
> > From: eas lab <lab.eas at gmail.com <mailto:lab.eas at gmail.com>>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID:
> > ? ? ? ?
> > <CAN3-DLHp95wV+N0-Hc9niQ8GJjc083HFq2nKjs5KXkMV2khVXQ at mail.gmail.com
> > <mailto:CAN3-DLHp95wV%2BN0-Hc9niQ8GJjc083HFq2nKjs5KXkMV2k
> hVXQ at mail.gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > It's important to realise why-would-you-want-to-use Oberon ?
> > When you have a complex problem, that needs simultaneous inspection
> of
> > many files,
> > and intermediate reluslts, and especially where coloring parts of the
> > textFrames shows
> > the otherwise difficult to appreciate relationship between various
> > sections of the text in
> > the various TextFrames.
> > ? In the 90s Oberon gave these advantages [still unsurpassed], but
> the
> > introduction
> > of new technology, eg, the monsterously complex USB, could have
> > made ETHO
> > redundant, had ETHO not been portable enough to be allowed to
> > ride-on-top-of
> > *nix.
> >
> > For me: V4 was the only version I could find, while I was forced
> > to use M$pook;
> > and like the *nix version was some relief from the restrictions of
> > M$, but like
> > the *nix version lacked the ease of directly being able to
> > read/write anywhere
> > in the file tree -- which AFAIK only Linux Eth Oberon can do.
> > LEO also has the massively powerful ability to directly execute
> > *nix commands
> > and scripts [and show the results]. So eg. the [absurd IMO] inability
> > to <List the
> > N most recently-ordered files>, needs only LEO's System.Execute to
> > call:
> > ? Lz /mnt/USBstik/Med/Cases/F*g/? 22
> > to show the name and size of the ordered-by-recentcy 22 files, in
> > directory
> > [don't use M$pook baby-talk and call it a folder]
> > /mnt/USBstik/Med/Cases/F*g/
> > .....
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 01:39:25 +0000
> > From: eas lab <lab.eas at gmail.com <mailto:lab.eas at gmail.com>>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] Translating ETHOberon 2.5 to C
> > Message-ID:
> > ? ? ? ?
> > <CAN3-DLEeRxZt-LiRYrJDUWmwuTpeijfxwJFRb6og+R3YP3KR0Q at mail.gmail.com
> > <mailto:CAN3-DLEeRxZt-LiRYrJDUWmwuTpeijfxwJFRb6og%
> 2BR3YP3KR0Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > <Note sheet> format must be very <graphic>,
> > getting close to hardware ?
> > Needing access to ETHO's functions which don't exist in C.
> > C is just a language, not an OS.
> >
> > ETHOberon is a language and an OS [driving hardware].
> > These O to C translators wont handle the <Note sheet rendering>.
> >
> > PublicDomain wily [my most used linux utility] is based on ETHO:
> > mouse-chording & multiple TextFrames in multiple Tracks accessible
> > on the single screen. But they've just copied the CONCEPTS and not
> > tried to translate-Oberon-to-C
> >
> > Unless your app just generates the <data> which is finally fed to
> some
> > <standard renderer>. Eg. we can use any language/system to translate
> > a text file to a corresponding pdf rendering of it.
> > But the final <note sheet> is created by the pdf renderer.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 06:41:45 +0000
> > From: "Skulski, Wojciech" <skulski at pas.rochester.edu
> > <mailto:skulski at pas.rochester.edu>>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID:
> > ? ? ? ?
> > <DM5PR0701MB3672C5244CE2BAFE92502858FF220 at DM5PR0701MB3672.
> namprd07.prod.outlook.com
> > <mailto:DM5PR0701MB3672C5244CE2BAFE92502858FF220@
> DM5PR0701MB3672.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Hello:
> >
> > ? I want to thank everybody who responded. Those who did not,
> > please do!
> >
> > The results thus far are available through this link. I hope it
> > works for everybody.
> >
> > https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YSV9HDQJ8/
> > <https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-YSV9HDQJ8/>
> >
> > My impression looking at the results is the following:
> >
> > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who responded
> > (thank you!) represent 1/2 of the community, there are under 100
> > Oberon users worldwide.
> >
> > 2. I was surprised that many of you prefer the original TUI Oberon
> > over V4 or S3.
> >
> > 3. I was even more surprised to see six FPGA developers, plus
> > seven potential developers. It is more than I know in the entire
> > nuclear physics community, where FPGAs are critically important.
> > Our community could serve the entire country!
> >
> > 4. There are three potential board developers, including myself.
> >
> > 5. The market for a new more powerful board is six customers.
> >
> > So this is quite interesting. Good to know!
> >
> > Thank you again!
> >
> > Wojtek
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 23:43:48 -0800
> > From: Douglas G Danforth <danforth at greenwoodfarm.com
> > <mailto:danforth at greenwoodfarm.com>>
> > To: oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>
> > Subject: Re: [Oberon] V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID:
> > <8caf39c6-a812-6ee6-80cc-ccd42a3de664 at greenwoodfarm.com
> > <mailto:8caf39c6-a812-6ee6-80cc-ccd42a3de664 at greenwoodfarm.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > Don't forget the Russian contingent who are developing in
> > BlackBox/Component Pascal.
> >
> > On 11/19/2017 10:41 PM, Skulski, Wojciech wrote:
> > > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who
> > responded (thank you!) represent 1/2 of the community, there are
> > under 100 Oberon users worldwide.
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
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> 20171119/5dbb56a9/attachment-0001.html>>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 09:49:46 +0100
> > From: Andreas Pirklbauer <andreas_pirklbauer at yahoo.com
> > <mailto:andreas_pirklbauer at yahoo.com>>
> > To: ETH Oberon and related systems <oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch
> > <mailto:oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch>>
> > Subject: [Oberon]? V4 versus S3 survey
> > Message-ID: <B081E179-7C39-474E-99E2-D760675B731F at yahoo.com
> > <mailto:B081E179-7C39-474E-99E2-D760675B731F at yahoo.com>>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > > 1. The community is small. Assuming that 29 persons who
> > > responded (thank you!) represent 1/2 of the community,
> > > there are under 100 Oberon users worldwide.
> >
> > That?s another way of saying that Oberon isn?t exactly a growth
> > story. There were more Oberon developers in the 90s..
> >
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > --
> > Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch <mailto:Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch> mailing
> > list for ETH Oberon and related systems
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
> > <https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 8
> > **************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
> > https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
>
>
> --
> ____________________________________
> Dr. Dieter Gl?tzel
> Im Rosengarten 27
> 64367 M?hltal
> Tel.: 06151 / 360 82 72
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> --
> Oberon at lists.inf.ethz.ch mailing list for ETH Oberon and related systems
> https://lists.inf.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/oberon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Oberon Digest, Vol 162, Issue 9
> **************************************
>
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