[Oberon] Oberon != Z-80

[Lisias Toledo]

Charles Angelich wrote:

> >EVERY new idea, new concept or new anything are non-standard.
> 
> Good points but poor marketing strategy.

By this line of thinking computers could never reached the home
market...

By the time IBM made the PC, the standard was Apple //, but many others
was working on that "next standard" like Commondore, RadioShack and even
Sinclair.

Marketing is for products, and products are made by PAID workers, so it
appear to me that marketing is not a tool to be applied in Oberon.

 
> >b) Forget about Oberon.
> 
> I have to admit that option "b" is becoming more attractive every day
> but there is also "c".

Sorry, is not my intention.

 
> c) I am having no problems using the CTRL key as the MM button.  I just
> have problems here with other Oberon users who want to dictate what equipment
> I must use.  Solution - other Oberon users get used to my use of a two
> button mouse. ;-)

It's a nice trick, but we loose the CTRL as a key modifier. Not sure if
this is bad thing anyway...

I think a better solution can be using CTRL as a "modifier" to the mouse
buttons behavior. CTRL-LM can be EXECUTE, CTRL-RM some very used
interclick command. And the CTRL could be used with other keys, as we
are used to.

 
> Point being tools to work in embedded ASM were availabe for the Z-80 for
> the past 20 years. It was not the "odd" chip, it was once the most
> common chip. LOL

But not TODAY. Nowadays I had found ARM processors instead. However, it
was just a example. Zilogs are "non-standards" microcontrollers here,
but was found to be the better choice to control ABS brakes...

I think it's time to forget about this examples, I'm getting
pointless... 8-(
 

> Try to promote an OS that uses the MIT one-handed keyboard and you see
> something comparable to telling me to buy another mouse.

Again, 3 buttons mice are almost the standard around here. I think the 2
button mouse issue will be solved by americans, where it appears to me
that 2 buttons mouse is a definitive standard.

 
> >I do not see how to convince, for example, a Brazilian guy to code to a
> >american standard mouse.
> 
> I am discussing this with a "Brazilian guy" who took the time to learn
> English?  Was learning English unreasonable and a waste of your time?

Yes, and NO.

I learn English (less that I should, I think - I'm making too much fuss
for nothing... 8-P) to be able to communicate with people around the
world. English became the "standard language", so I took it. If we were
living in XIX Century, it would be French.

But I still talk Portuguese with my child, wife and local partners, so I
don't understand your point.

 
> I have installed Oberon V4 (POW with OPAL) into a W31 environment.  A totally
> different approach for Oberon unfortunately.  Seems to be a vehicle to avoid
> learning Windows API and use Oberon as a `translation' tool to write
> Windows apps?

Maybe. But I liked some elements from GUI, as the "cascading menu"
buttons. I'm playing with "Oberon for Windows V4.0-2.3 on Windows 95",
FYI.

 
> "Ripe" in my language refers to the time when fruit is sweet and edible.
> In common use also when fruit is beyond this point and has a strong odor.
> I suspect you mean something closer to rape?  Rape def: A woman against
> her will.

Was a typo. I was meaning "ripped" and "rip-off", as in
http://www.actsofgord.com/Annoy/chapter06.html, but I made a mistake
conjugating the verb. I think it's time to read again a English
Grammar... 8-|


> The days of hacking the 8080A and Z-80 in ASM are dead.  Few remain who
> program in any language for the joy of solving the puzzle. 

Fact. But still it is used on embedded solutions, so new tools may be of
use, if someone bothers to build them. Even at no direct profit.


> I mourn the loss
> of the joy of programming and the loss to these people who had found
> something they could enjoy.

At least here in Brazil there are some crazy, stupid people (yes, I am
one of them... 8-) that still waste time on these things, like building
a C compiler for the Z-80 that can be used to build UZI programs...

When I decided to learn Oberon I was thinking in a tool that can be
portable to a Zilog Z380 computer these people are founding (a kind of
32 bits MSX) to have something different and nice to teach basic CC to
my son (and maybe others kids, if I'm sucessful). I'm considering LOGO
also, but I need a basic S.O. first (and I'm pretty sick of Unix clones
- I don't need all that complexity on this job).

And I need a Final Project (sorry, I don't know the right words) for my
graduation next year, maybe something I can also use on my
pos-graduation and, perhaps, mastering.

So Oberon can be a good choice for *me*.


> I had thought Oberon might be something
> similar but right now I'm not so sure anymore.

As a matter of fact, I think Oberon is just it. There are a lot of open
issues that must be worked out. A new mouse interface for the 2 buttons
mouse is one of them as you had pointed.

-- 
[]s,
(Pink at Manaus.Amazon.Brazil.America.Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Universe)

Bose-Einstein Condensation : A new concept on Software Development.